LAC Phillip Holmes

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Temujin
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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by Temujin » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:09 pm

LiamLondon wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:31 am
Temujin wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:24 pm
I could post more of these, but this is unbelievable in my mind........about 10 to 15 more of these flights from Toronto to New York??

I’m going to look for other information first
Dear Temujin

I cannot thank you enough for the information and the documents you have provided. Are you able to provide a link to the full resource of the passenger information lists and the other documents you sourced, it would help me tremendously.

I was aware that Ralph seemed to commute back to New York from Canada quite frequently, however I wasn't aware how usual this was. Were service people able to 'pay' for extended leave/furlough to visit family if they had the funds to do so?

Many thanks

Liam
All of these documents are available on Ancestry.com.........if you need all of them I can either finish posting them here, or you can go on Ancestry

AND, YES, it would have been VERY UNUSUAL to allow a Canadian Military member to fly back and forth (almost every weekend) during the was. AND, NO, you CANNOT “pay” for extended leave in the Canadian Forces......and during the war he would have need “permission” for EVERY time he left the base and left Canada. It “may” have been his VIP status (who he was married to) could have helped.......or he may have done it on his own and not reported it.......Hopefully his Canadian Records may give some “clues” of why he was allowed to travel so much.....and it will all give you all the Canadian Units he was stationed at.

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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by Temujin » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:13 pm

LiamLondon wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:37 am
georgetanksherman wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:39 pm
Greetings all ! Looking for further info on LAC Phillip Holmes, RCAF, R/143895, born Grand Rapids Michigan, parents New York City, died August 12, 1942, was involved in a mid-air collision, looking for Squadron / School, Aircraft, Serial #, and if possible, what happened. Appreciate any help and assistance with this !

Cheers

George
Hi Everyone

I have another couple questions about LAC Phillips Holmes:

1) Phillips apparently shaved off a few years from his age to ensure his eligibility into the RCAF -- what was the upper age limit for service people to enlist in into the RCAF 1941?
2) Phillips is sometimes referred to as 'the first Hollywood actor killed in active service'; The air-collision in which he and others were killed was officially designated by the RCAF as 'killed in active service'--but does anyone know if he was the first Hollywood actor killed in active service, I'm pretty sure he was.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Liam
That is usual, usually they ADD years to get in (my father in law was 16, enlistment age was 18). So the normal enlist age limits were 18 to 45. His “real age” was 26 when he joined, I believe, so really no reason to “add years” to his age

Your second question......I don’t know. I’m not sure if I could find that out.....but I’ll have a quick look to see if I can confirm that (or not)

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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by LiamLondon » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:55 pm

Hi Temujin

Thanks for your replies--really helpful information.

Great--I will make an application to access Ralph Holmes' full records.

If you can post the remainder of all the Ralph Holmes documents here I would be very grateful (I have an Ancestry account, but it only covers UK/Ireland--where I am based). The Worldwide Membership is considerably more expensive!

I'll look further into Phillips Holmes position on age--his records do show that he didn't provide his birth certificate, and that subsequently he needed written verification from his father and mother to his birthplace/age.

With best wishes

Liam

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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by Temujin » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:30 pm

LiamLondon wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:55 pm
Hi Temujin

Thanks for your replies--really helpful information.

Great--I will make an application to access Ralph Holmes' full records.

If you can post the remainder of all the Ralph Holmes documents here I would be very grateful (I have an Ancestry account, but it only covers UK/Ireland--where I am based). The Worldwide Membership is considerably more expensive!

I'll look further into Phillips Holmes position on age--his records do show that he didn't provide his birth certificate, and that subsequently he needed written verification from his father and mother to his birthplace/age.

With best wishes

Liam
Liam, yes I can do this. By the way, I just went thru and wrote down all the dates in traveled to NY (so I don’t repeat them) and then checked them on the calendar......basically he went to NY every two week, sometimes every week on Friday......so for the weekend

Was he “allowed” to do this......normally NO, not without permission, which he “may” have had......BUT, my gut tells me NO, he didn’t have permission, he just WENT.....again, his records “may” tell us (but they might not)

OK, It will take me a while to download all these (probably get it done today, I hope) and will post up here

Cheers

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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by Temujin » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:53 pm

I’ve done a few more......but it goes on and on and on.....he went home EVERY weekend that I can see......so I’m going to stop here, as it takes time to view each record, download, post to photo’s and send to you......their may be 3 years of these
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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by Temujin » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:29 pm

Liam, just a side note.......I was interested in “what type” of aircraft would Trans Canada Airlines (now Air Canada) fly during the war.....at the top of “some” of these documents are the aircraft type, and Registration Number, such as Lockheed CF-TCW, CF-TCO, CF-TCY, and CF-TCF

Trans Canada Air Lines had previously received an initial order of 15 Lockheed Super Electra aircraft to commence the transcontinental airmail service in 1939. These were smaller ten-passenger aircraft, whereas the Lodestar was a 14-passenger aircraft with greater speed and range.

Here is a page from Canadian Civil aircraft registrations and you can see these were Lockheed Super Electra’s and Lockheed Lodestars
ED3940A8-FF2A-4DF1-83B6-B676610501A1.jpeg
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Lockheed 14-H2 Super Electra
12A27288-0BF1-4F17-8A37-CDA3F6D2A9E1.jpeg
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Lockheed 18-10 Lodestar
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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by LiamLondon » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:10 pm

Temujin wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:53 pm
I’ve done a few more......but it goes on and on and on.....he went home EVERY weekend that I can see......so I’m going to stop here, as it takes time to view each record, download, post to photo’s and send to you......their may be 3 years of these

C0E68F7D-15D8-403E-9337-1DA0F8F7CFA2.jpeg
825844D2-43E6-4AB4-AB1C-FF7CA67074B7.jpeg
B5DE550B-E328-4805-A47B-1211DAE69684.jpeg
10BEFA47-C5B7-4F61-990D-09030B282D13.jpeg
7DB7C4A6-83DA-42E1-AFEE-D8EEFE09DC97.jpeg
2571FC66-34A2-48AF-B650-F868C1D278C9.jpeg
9B5B402B-1195-4A81-BD62-FB0A8FD540A2.jpeg
5805512C-2974-4F1C-989E-A8CA93C2E550.jpeg
Hi Temujin

Thanks so much for the posts and uploading the documents, I appreciate it. It's also really interesting to note the type of aircraft he was commuting back and forth between his base in Canada and New York, so thanks for that too. Great to see that one of the aircraft is still in existence and is awaiting restoration too!

It certainly seems odd that Ralph Holmes was allowed to go back to NY every weekend, or even every other weekend. I'm not sure he would have been able to keep this quiet--since his name was regularly appearing in New York syndicated newspaper columns published widely throughout the US and Canada; so his superiors must have been aware of his movements I think.

With regards to the Passenger Information Records--can you see when the trips dwindle out? From the operations information for his squadron which you posted here, he went to Europe from October 1943...were the trips 'home' to NY from Canada steady to that point? How often did he make it back home after he was posted to Europe from October 1943?

I'll make an application for his RCAF war records tomorrow. Will make fascinating reading for sure!

Thanks

Liam

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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by Temujin » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:41 pm

LiamLondon wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:10 pm
Temujin wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:53 pm
I’ve done a few more......but it goes on and on and on.....he went home EVERY weekend that I can see......so I’m going to stop here, as it takes time to view each record, download, post to photo’s and send to you......their may be 3 years of these

C0E68F7D-15D8-403E-9337-1DA0F8F7CFA2.jpeg
825844D2-43E6-4AB4-AB1C-FF7CA67074B7.jpeg
B5DE550B-E328-4805-A47B-1211DAE69684.jpeg
10BEFA47-C5B7-4F61-990D-09030B282D13.jpeg
7DB7C4A6-83DA-42E1-AFEE-D8EEFE09DC97.jpeg
2571FC66-34A2-48AF-B650-F868C1D278C9.jpeg
9B5B402B-1195-4A81-BD62-FB0A8FD540A2.jpeg
5805512C-2974-4F1C-989E-A8CA93C2E550.jpeg
Hi Temujin

Thanks so much for the posts and uploading the documents, I appreciate it. It's also really interesting to note the type of aircraft he was commuting back and forth between his base in Canada and New York, so thanks for that too. Great to see that one of the aircraft is still in existence and is awaiting restoration too!

It certainly seems odd that Ralph Holmes was allowed to go back to NY every weekend, or even every other weekend. I'm not sure he would have been able to keep this quiet--since his name was regularly appearing in New York syndicated newspaper columns published widely throughout the US and Canada; so his superiors must have been aware of his movements I think.

With regards to the Passenger Information Records--can you see when the trips dwindle out? From the operations information for his squadron which you posted here, he went to Europe from October 1943...were the trips 'home' to NY from Canada steady to that point? How often did he make it back home after he was posted to Europe from October 1943?

I'll make an application for his RCAF war records tomorrow. Will make fascinating reading for sure!

Thanks

Liam
Your welcome Liam. I would have posted more, but their were so many of them. Let me check to see if I can determine WHEN they stopped.

So far, what I sent you......one of them was for 1 Nov 43.....I’ll check to see if their were any past that date.......and I’ll check to see if anything AFTER he was posted to Europe.........AND, I’ll see if I can tell which Convoy he went over on???

So, as Arnold would say “I’ll be BAKKK”

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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by Temujin » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:00 pm

Liam, I checked thru the records and the “last” date I found that he flew from Toronto to New York was the 5 Nov 1943
8BEED01F-C3E4-44CC-9843-92C3B56C90EC.jpeg
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I also think I’ve found the “FIRST” record, when he started making these flight to New York, 25 Oct 1941
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I can’t be positive on this, as there seem to be records everywhere......sometimes with his full name (including middle name), sometime just first and last, sometimes with no middle initial, so to find them all would take “some time” to open every record to double check it.


Also, I found THIS RECORD, him and his wife (the broadway singer) and their coming back from Bermuda on a “Flying Boat” (I believe), I think BEFORE he joined the RCAF (can’t be sure without his records)
3F96A5C6-38D3-4566-B8BD-1B510B417728.jpeg
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Info on the “Yankee Clipper” from the info in the record above
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Photo of the “Yankee Clipper”
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Source: https://www.flyingboatmuseum.com/boeing ... ying-boat/

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Re: LAC Phillip Holmes

Post by LiamLondon » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:37 am

Temujin wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:00 pm
Liam, I checked thru the records and the “last” date I found that he flew from Toronto to New York was the 5 Nov 1943

8BEED01F-C3E4-44CC-9843-92C3B56C90EC.jpeg


I also think I’ve found the “FIRST” record, when he started making these flight to New York, 25 Oct 1941

4BF04188-E754-44FC-A833-E99D251A33FF.jpeg

I can’t be positive on this, as there seem to be records everywhere......sometimes with his full name (including middle name), sometime just first and last, sometimes with no middle initial, so to find them all would take “some time” to open every record to double check it.


Also, I found THIS RECORD, him and his wife (the broadway singer) and their coming back from Bermuda on a “Flying Boat” (I believe), I think BEFORE he joined the RCAF (can’t be sure without his records)

3F96A5C6-38D3-4566-B8BD-1B510B417728.jpeg

Info on the “Yankee Clipper” from the info in the record above
D1148DD7-2E47-446E-99E4-5A7BA2130CB2.jpeg

Photo of the “Yankee Clipper”
3FE4C1A3-4480-4100-8D94-B350B22EB4E0.jpeg

Source: https://www.flyingboatmuseum.com/boeing ... ying-boat/
Dear Temujin

Thanks so much - you've provided me with some great information!

Yes, the trip to Bermuda was before he enlisted (I believe they went there twice). On the occasion noted on your documentation, the plane destination was diverted from New York to Baltimore, due to poor weather conditions in the New York region.

Here's a photo of Mr and Mrs Ralph Holmes in Bermuda on that trip!

Thanks

Liam
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