A question about LADs for you lads

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ccamfield
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A question about LADs for you lads

Post by ccamfield » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:34 pm

Hi all,

I was going over a document talking about adopting the Archer (Valentine SP) for Canadian use, and it says:

"The implications of this recommendation from the RCEME standpoint are (a) LAD (D) for infantry division anti-tank regiments would be required in place of the present LAD (A)."

I understand LAD means "Light Aid Detachment", but what was the difference between a (D) and an (A)?


The second point from an RCEME standpoint was that it wouldn't a serious problem because Canadian mechanics were reasonably familiar with that type of engine 8-)

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Re: A question about LADs for you lads

Post by Temujin » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:32 am

ccamfield wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:34 pm
Hi all,

I was going over a document talking about adopting the Archer (Valentine SP) for Canadian use, and it says:

"The implications of this recommendation from the RCEME standpoint are (a) LAD (D) for infantry division anti-tank regiments would be required in place of the present LAD (A)."

I understand LAD means "Light Aid Detachment", but what was the difference between a (D) and an (A)?


The second point from an RCEME standpoint was that it wouldn't a serious problem because Canadian mechanics were reasonably familiar with that type of engine 8-)
A Light Aid Detachment is an attached independent minor unit of the Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers operating as a sub-unit of the supported unit. These units provide dedicated logistic support to every field unit of the Canadian Army. RCEME were created in October 1942 out of elements of the Royal Canadian Army Service Corps and Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps who previously handled functions such as the repair of weapons, optics and vehicles.

NOTE: Information below is from British War Establishments, but generally Canada adopted British establishments (generally, but not always.....and Generally Canadian units had more vehicles within their establishments)

LIGHT AID DETACHMENT
Light Aid Detachments were provided by RCEME for most battalion/regiment sized units. They came under the command of the unit they served but for matters of training, technical efficiency, postings etc they remained the responsibility of the CREME.

The functions of the Light Aid Detachment were listed as;
- recovery of equipment
- repair of equipment by the replacement of minor assemblies
- light running repairs
- maintenance and servicing of the units equipment.

LAD personnel were assisted in some of the above tasks by the unit fitters and artificers, and by attached REME personnel. Repairs beyond the capacity of the LAD were undertaken by brigade workshops. However according to need and availability detachments of the brigade workshop might move forward to work alongside the LAD rather than evacuate the equipment.

Light Aid Detachment Type A

LAD Type A was attached to units with more than the normal amount of wheeled transport.

The Light Aid Detachment was fully self mobile and did not require extra transport for a move. Personnel were not assigned to specific vehicle in the War Establishment table but the detachment would have a standard operating procedure and some personnel were attached to a vehicle most of the time. Trained drivers were not provided for all vehicles. The unit trained sufficient drivers itself.


Light Aid Detachment Type A (Armoured) attached to
GHQ Liaison Regiment (Phantom)


Subaltern
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic (A)
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
5 X vehicle mechanic (AFV)
acetylene welder, Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
batman driver
Total 16 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry lorry



Light Aid Detachment Type A (Armoured) attached to
Armoured Car Regiment


Subaltern
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic (A)
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
5 X vehicle mechanic (AFV)
acetylene welder, ClassII
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
batman driver
Total 16 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X Tractor 6 X 4 (Recovery)


Light Aid Detachment Type A (Armoured) attached to
Reconnaissance Regiment

Subaltern
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic (A)
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
5 X vehicle mechanic (AFV)
acetylene welder, ClassII
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
batman driver
Total 16 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry lorry
1 X 7 ½ ton recovery trailer


Light Aid Detachment Type A (Unarmoured) attached to
Survey Regiment RCA
Corps Signals
GHQ Signals
Air Formation Signals
L of C signals


Warrant Officer Class I, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic
electrician, vehicle and plant
5 X vehicle mechanic
acetylene welder, ClassII
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
Total 14 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry lorry


Light Aid Detachment Type A (Unarmoured) attached to
Infantry Brigade Group


Warrant Officer Class I, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic
electrician, vehicle and plant
5 X vehicle mechanic
acetylene welder, ClassII
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
Total 14 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 4 X 4 (jeep)
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry



Light Aid Detachment Type A (Unarmoured) attached to
Anti Tank Regiment


Warrant Officer Class I, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic
electrician, vehicle and plant
3 X fitter
2 X vehicle mechanic
acetylene welder, Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
Total 14 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry


Light Aid Detachment Type B

This was the smallest of the Light Aid Detachments and was used by the greatest number of types of unit. It remained unchanged throughout the campaign

Light Aid Detachment Type B (Armoured) attached to
Engineer Field Park, Armoured Division
Armoured Division Signals
Motor Battalion


Captain or Subaltern
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic (A)
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
3 X vehicle mechanic (AFV)
acetylene welder, Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
batman driver
Total 14 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry

Light Aid Detachment Type B (Armoured) attached to
Field Regiment RCA in an armoured division


Captain or Subaltern
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic (A)
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
2 X fitter
vehicle mechanic (AFV)
acetylene welder, Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
batman driver
Total 14 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry

Light Aid Detachment Type B (Unarmoured) attached to
HQ Armoured Division
Engineer Field Park, Infantry Division
Infantry Division Signals
Machine Gun Battalion


Warrant Officer Class I, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic
electrician, vehicle and plant
3 X vehicle mechanic
acetylene welder, Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
Total 12 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry


Light Aid Detachment Type B (Unarmoured) attached to
Infantry Brigade

Warrant Officer Class I, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic
electrician, vehicle and plant
3 X vehicle mechanic
acetylene welder, Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
Total 12 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 4 X 4 (jeep)
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry


Light Aid Detachment Type B (Unarmoured) attached to
Field Regiment RCA in an Infantry Division


Warrant Officer Class I, Armament Artificer
serjeant vehicle mechanic
3 X driver mechanic
electrician, vehicle and plant
2 X fitter
vehicle mechanic
acetylene welder, Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
Total 12 all ranks

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 2 seater
2 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown gantry



Light Aid Detachment Type C
An LAD Type C was larger than Type A and Type B. It was normally commanded by a Captain. It was intended for units which had a large number of tracked and armoured vehicles.

Light Aid Detachment Type C attached to
Armoured Regiment (Sherman)
Tank Battalion (Churchill)


Captain
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
3 X Staff Serjeant, Armament Artificer
3 X driver mechanic (A)
2 X driver operator
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
fitter
5 X vehicle mechanic
electric welder, Class I or Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
clerk, technical
batman driver
2 X driver IC
2 X general dutyman
Total 25 all ranks

2 X motorcycle
1 X 15cwt GS
1 X 15cwt Machinery KL
1 X 14cwt Fitted For Wireless
2 X 3ton stores lorry
2 X Tractor 6 X 4 breakdown


Light Aid Detachment Type C attached to
Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment


Captain
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
3 X Staff Serjeant, Armament Artificer
3 X driver mechanic (A)
2 X driver operator
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
fitter
5 X vehicle mechanic
electric welder, Class I or Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
clerk, technical
batman driver
driver IC
2 X general dutyman
Total 25 all ranks

2 X motorcycle
1 X 15cwt GS
1 X 15cwt Machinery KL
1 X 14cwt Fitted For Wireless
1 X 3ton stores lorry
2 X Tractor 6 X 4 breakdown



Light Aid Detachment Type C attached to
Field Regiment RCA SP
Anti Tank Regiment RCA SP


Captain
Warrant Officer Class II, Armament Artificer
3 X Staff Serjeant, Armament Artificer
3 X driver mechanic (A)
2 X driver operator
electrician, vehicle and plant (AFV)
4 X fitter
2 X vehicle mechanic
electric welder, Class I or Class II
lance corporal storeman
storeman, trained as motor cyclist
clerk, technical
batman driver
driver IC
2 X general dutyman
Total 25 all ranks

2 X motorcycle
1 X 15cwt GS
1 X 15cwt Machinery KL
1 X 14cwt Fitted For Wireless
1 X 3ton stores lorry
2 X Tractor 6 X 4 breakdown



Light Aid Detachment Type D
This establishment applied to specialist armour units of 79 Armoured Division and the Light Aid Detachment could be divided into sections to accompany separate squadrons.

The War establishment table lists only one variation from the standard organisation.
- One extra 15cwt GS truck was provided by the LAD for the use of the REME armourer attached to the regiment. It is not clear whether armoured regiments equipped with Flail tanks followed the usual armoured regiment organisation in having an armourer for each squadron. If so there would not be a 15cwt provided. The 15cwt was provided for the Armoured Engineer Regiment.

The Light Aid Detachment was fully self mobile and did not require extra transport for a move. Personnel were not assigned to specific vehicle in the War Establishment table but the detachment would have a standard operating procedure and some personnel were attached to a vehicle most of the time. Trained drivers were not provided for all vehicles. The unit trained sufficient drivers itself.

- the jeep was for the use of the Captain and was driven by the batman driver.
- the driver mechanics were for the breakdown lorry and were trained in recovery work.


Light Aid Detachment (Special) attached to
- An Armoured Engineer Regiment
- An Armoured Regiment of 30 Brigade (Flail tanks)


War Establishment VIII/707/1. April 1944
War Establishment XIV/1685/1. May 1945.
Headquarters
Captain
Warrant Officer Class II Armament Artificer
driver mechanic
electrician
vehicle mechanic
electric welder
clerk, technical
storeman
batman driver
driver IC
general dutyman

2 X motorcycle
1 X 15cwt KL
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 GS lorry
1 X Heavy Recovery Tractor or ARV

There were three sections, one per squadron of the unit to which the LAD was attached.
3 X Section
Armament Artificer
2 X driver mechanic
electrician
fitter
3 X vehicle mechanic
electric welder

1 X car 4 X 4 jeep
1 X 15cwt GS
1 X 10cwt trailer
1 X 15cwt Machinery KL
1 X 10cwt welding trailer
1 X 3ton stores lorry
1 X Heavy Recovery Tractor


Light Aid Detachment (Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment)
War Establishment XIV/1683/1. March 1945
Until March 1945 the LAD (Special) was used.


Headquarters
Captain
Warrant Officer Class II Armament Artificer
2 X driver mechanic
fitter
turner
acetylene welder
storeman
batman driver
2 X driver IC
general dutyman

1 X car 5cwt 4 X 4
1 X 15cwt GS
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 stores binned
1 X 3ton 4 X 4 Machinery M
1 X 1ton trailer

There were three sections, one per squadron of the unit to which the LAD was attached.
3 X Section
staff serjeant armament artificer
5 X driver mechanic
electrician
6 X vehicle mechanic
electric welder
2 X driver IC
general dutyman

1 X motorcycle
1 X car 5cwt 4 X 4 jeep
1 X 15cwt KL
1 X 3ton stores binned
1 X 3ton 6 X 4 breakdown
1 X 1ton trailer

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Re: A question about LADs for you lads

Post by Temujin » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:43 am

A summary of the Canadian Army Organization throughout the war. This is a Army Historical Document.

Within this document you can see the number and types of LAD’s assigned to various organization within the First Canadian Army.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp ... ahq057.pdf

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Re: A question about LADs for you lads

Post by Temujin » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:24 am

Here’s some “history” of LAD’s during the Normandy Landings. Give’s you a sense of what they did
FBB45F76-0642-436C-B5E6-0E6740EB8C13.png
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AE7F0BAF-522F-431C-BB14-981A40265D11.png
AE7F0BAF-522F-431C-BB14-981A40265D11.png (470.22 KiB) Viewed 2242 times
0F4CE726-CC51-49B5-84FE-4D7B5A43AF21.png
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Source:

The Story of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering in the Canadian Armed Forces
up to and including The 50th Anniversary of the formation of the
Corps of Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers

by
Colonel Murray C. Johnston

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Re: A question about LADs for you lads

Post by ccamfield » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:19 am

Woah, that's a lot of information :) But I guess it's easier to cut & paste the whole kit and kaboodle.

This does of course answer my question and it's quite interesting. I see that 35 Cdn LAD (assigned to 3rd Canadian AT) already was a Type D.

Will have to see what more I can glean from this when I have had more sleep. :-/

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Re: A question about LADs for you lads

Post by Temujin » Fri May 03, 2019 9:55 pm

Light Aid Detachments (and other RCEME units) which Landed on Juno Beach (their assigned units is show in paretheses)

3rd Canadian Infantry Division And attached Units
Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers


Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers HQ’s - Lt Col E.M. Shields. NOTE INFORMATION BELOW HAS BEEN UPDATED WITH OC’S

4 Cdn L.A.A.Workshop (Type A) - Capt G.R. Currie
7 Cdn Infantry Brigade Workshop - Major R.B. Storms
8 Cdn Infantry Brigade Workshop
9 Cdn Infantry Brigade Workshop - Major L. P. Baker
35 Cdn LAD (3rd Cdn Anti-Tank Regiment) - A/Capt J.H. Bourne
36 Cdn LAD (Type A - 7 Cdn Infantry Brigade) - Lt R.A. Evans
37 Cdn LAD (Type A - 8 Cdn Infantry Brigade)
38 Cdn LAD (Type A - 9 Cdn Infantry Brigade) - Capt W.T. Mills
30 Cdn LAD (Type B - 3 Cdn Field Park Company) - Lt L.G. Marks
31 Cdn LAD (Type B - 3 Cdn Infantry Division Signals) - Capt H.G. Ambrose
6 Cdn LAD (Type B - C. H. of O. (MG)) - Lt R Merryweather (until 19 Jul), Lt W Mills
32 Cdn LAD (Type D - 12 Cdn Field Regiment) - A/Capt T.C. Hastings
33 Cdn LAD (Type D - 13 Cdn Field Regiment) - A/Capt W.T.E. Duncan
34 Cdn LAD (Type D - 14 Cdn Field Regiment) - Lt F.B. Munroe
62 Cdn LAD (Type A - 7 Cdn Recce Regt) - Capt L. C. West


2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade
Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers

55 Cdn LAD (Type C - 6th Cdn Armoured Regiment): Capt P.C. Neil
55 Cdn LAD (Type C - 10th Cdn Armoured Regiment): Capt R.G. Struthers
85 Cdn LAD (Type C - 27th Cdn Armoured Regiment): Lt C.H. Neil

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