Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

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Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by georgetanksherman » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:44 am

During my research, I came across a Frederick Newman Smith, One) was with the RAFVR assigned to RAF No. 121 Eagle Squadron as a Pilot Officer, no further info on him that I can find. Two) The other one was with RCAF and a Flt Sgt assigned to RAF No. 502 Squadron, Killed in a flying accident in an Armstrong Whitworth Whitley (See Below) so my question is, are these two separate warriors, or when the Eagle Squadrons transferred over to USAAF, he did not want to go, so transferred to RCAF, as both individual are pilots. And next question, if it is the same warrior, why would he go from a Pilot Officer to a Flight Sergeant ???

#1
Whitley, Z9192, July 30, 1942

Aircraft took off from RAF St Eval, Cornwall United Kingdom. Aircraft crashed in a field at Merlin Farm, St Mawgan, 1 ½ miles from the St Mawgan Police House., the aircraft was completely burned out in the crash killing all on board

Crew: Pilot: P/O L.J. Endicott, 115749, RAFVR, Trenance, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Pilot: Flt Sgt Frederick Newman Smith, R/73224, RCAF, Portland, Maine, U.S.A.
Obs: P/O G.R. Gethings, 120940, RAFVR, Hometown Unknown
Obs (Radar): W/O W.G. Mewha, 816190, RAFVR, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland
Wop/Gnr: Sgt W.E. Powell, 922754, RAFVR, Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales
Gnr: Flt Sgt G.R. Douglas, 568410, RAFVR, Hometown unknown
A2C E. Barrett, 816224, RAF Aux, Belfast, Northern Ireland
A2C H.H. Nicholls, 1212095, RAF Aux, Earlsfield, London, United Kingdom
Cpl R.A. Brown, 816108, RAF Aux, Bloomfield, Belfast, Northern Ireland

#2
RAF No, 121 Squadron, Eagle Squadron

P/O Frederick Newman Smith

Flight training in Tulsa, Oklahoma, U.S.A., Shipped overseas, landed in Merseyside, U.K 1941, Attended Operational Training Unit in 1941 for training on Hurricane and Spitfire aircraft, upon graduation assigned to RAF No. 121 Squadron in 194, no further info found

Any help will be appreciated
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetanksherman on Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by Temujin » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:58 am

georgetanksherman wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:44 am

#1
Whitley, Z9192, July 30, 1942

Aircraft took off from RAF St Eval, Cornwall United Kingdom. Aircraft crashed in a field at Merlin Farm, St Mawgan, 1 ½ miles from the St Mawgan Police House., the aircraft was completely burned out in the crash killing all on board

Crew: Pilot: P/O L.J. Endicott, 115749, RAFVR, Trenance, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Pilot: Flt Sgt Frederick Newman Smith, R/73224, RCAF, Portland, Maine, U.S.A.
Obs: P/O G.R. Gethings, 120940, RAFVR, Hometown Unknown
Obs (Radar): W/O W.G. Mewha, 816190, RAFVR, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland
Wop/Gnr: Sgt W.E. Powell, 922754, RAFVR, Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales
Gnr: Flt Sgt G.R. Douglas, 568410, RAFVR, Hometown unknown
A2C E. Barrett, 816224, RAF Aux, Belfast, Northern Ireland
A2C H.H. Nicholls, 1212095, RAF Aux, Earlsfield, London, United Kingdom
Cpl R.A. Brown, 816108, RAF Aux, Bloomfield, Belfast, Northern Ireland

Cheers
George
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This record seems to indicated it crashed on Landing. 502 Squadron, RAF
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Follow up. Source: https://www.bombercommandmuseumarchives ... ar1942.pdf
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502 Squadron Operational Record Book
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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by Temujin » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:34 am

georgetanksherman wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:44 am
During my research, I came across a Frederick Newman Johnson, One) was with the RAFVR assigned to RAF No. 121 Eagle Squadron as a Pilot Officer, no further info on him that I can find. Two) The other one was with RCAF and a Flt Sgt assigned to RAF No. 502 Squadron, Killed in a flying accident in an Armstrong Whitworth Whitley (See Below) so my question is, are these two separate warriors, or when the Eagle Squadrons transferred over to USAAF, he did not want to go, so transferred to RCAF, as both individual are pilots. And next question, if it is the same warrior, why would he go from a Pilot Officer to a Flight Sergeant ???
George I”m a little confused by your post. This man has a different name??? In your post???

I’ve found the Frederick Newman Smith (all info posted above).......so I’ll look for the second man now “FREDERICK NEWMAN JOHNSON”

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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by georgetanksherman » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:20 pm

Sorry Temujin, corrected the above, thanks for pointing that out ! I had a long day :-) and trying to figure this out was just not working, so I sent up the "Help" flag :-)

Trying to figure out if the are the same or two different people with the same name ???? Frederick Newman Smith, One was with the RAF No. 121 Squadron and the other was with RAF No. 502 Squadron

Cheers, and hope all is well !
George

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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by Temujin » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:03 pm

georgetanksherman wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:20 pm
Sorry Temujin, corrected the above, thanks for pointing that out ! I had a long day :-) and trying to figure this out was just not working, so I sent up the "Help" flag :-)

Trying to figure out if the are the same or two different people with the same name ???? Frederick Newman Smith, One was with the RAF No. 121 Squadron and the other was with RAF No. 502 Squadron

Cheers, and hope all is well !
George
Well, I’m quite sure that they are “different” men. Here’s the Record for Frederick Newman Smith who served in 502 Squadron. As you can see he ‘never” trained on Hurricane’s or Spitfires, was NOT in an Eagle Squadron.........I’m still looking for the “other” Frederick Newman Smith to confirm
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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by Temujin » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:43 pm

George, I “think” the records you found (I found the same record) has his Middle Name incorrect.

I believe it is Fred Cullen Smith, attached is the info I have found. The first is the “nominal roll” of American’s who flew in Eagle Squadrons
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And a newspaper article of his return to the US and transferring to US forces
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And finally, a photo of him (in US Forces)
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Officers of the USAAF formerly members of the British Eagle Squadrons, have returned form the European front. they are in Washington today where they told their experience in aerial combat against the Nazis. The Eagle Squadrons were composed of American citizens who joined the British RAF and were organized into all American fighter squadrons. These were disbanded following the entry of the US into the war and the American personnel for the most part were transferred to our air forces. As such they continued in combat duty and have taken part in many of the successful actions against the enemy."

L-R: Lt John I Brown, Maj Carroll W McColpin, Capt Reade Tilley, Maj William J Dailey Jr, Capt John J McCloskey, Lt Dale Taylor, Lt A L Haynes, Capt Harold Strickland, Lt Bradford W Boyar, Capt Sam A Mauriello, Lt George L Strauss and Lt Fred Cullen Smith.

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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by Temujin » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:26 pm

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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by Temujin » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:39 pm

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https://www.mdeq.ms.gov/wp-content/uplo ... tin-81.pdf

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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by georgetanksherman » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:33 am

Wow, that is AWESOME, thank you Temujin, it was odd that one warrior was from Maine, and the other was from Mississippi, but it is better that both warriors will have the correct info !

As always, I really appreciate your help, this won really had me going in circles, and I am glad you could see were the confusion was coming from !

Cheers
George

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Re: Flt Sgt / P/O Frederick Newman Smith ???

Post by Temujin » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:22 am

Your Welcome George.

One point, the record that list him as Fred Newman Smith (which we now know is incorrect)......they say he did flight training in Tulsa, OK.......do you “think” that maybe that is where he was assigned as an Instructor when he returned to the US. The last newspaper article indicates on his transfer to US Forces that he was in the US for a year BEFORE he returned to England to a US Fighter Squadron...........Its possible that the record we found is “completely wrong” in name, dates, locations and timings????

Just a thought I had

Cheers

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