AC2 Charles Urbain Richard R89726

[Paul Squires]

Now here is a real mystery.

In the book They Shall Grow Not Old is an entry:

Richard, Charles Urbain AC2 R89726. From Arichat, Nova Scotia. Died Apr. 18/41. Recruiting Centre, Hamilton, Ontario. AC2 Richard was on leave without pay when he died of natural causes while in the General Hospital at Niagaar Falls, Ontario. AirCraftman Second Class Richard is buried at Arichat, Nova Scotia.

Problem is, there is no record of AC2 C.U. Richard. Not in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website, or the Canadian Virtual War Memorial, or Library and Archives Second World War Service Files War Dead section.

Possibly AC2 Richard applied to the RCAF, but died before he was enlisted.

Curious.

All the Best,

Paul
Wetaskiwin

[georgetanksherman]

Question Paul,

"Possibly AC2 Richard applied to the RCAF, but died before he was enlisted."

If AC2 Richard was waiting to join, would they have given him a personnel number and rank prior to enlisting ? and why the unpaid leave ?

I know all services work a bit different, so I am only asking to try to understand the RCAF way of doing things.

Hope all is well !

George

[Paul Squires]

Hi George,

I have found references to unpaid leave for airmen who have enlisted, but not yet been called up to active duty. Also for planting and harvesting crops. But those references are for airmen who are referenced on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Canadian Virtual War Memorial and the Library and Archives Canada database. What is unusual in this case is that he has a serial number, and is the They Shall Go Not Old, but there is no reference to this airman in other sources.

Another possibility is that he did not die, but was for some reason not called to serve. I met one airman sho served in the airforce, later the RCN as a pilot, and lived to retire, but is included in TSGNO in error.

Thus the mystery.

Paul

[Temujin]

Now here is a real mystery.

In the book They Shall Grow Not Old is an entry:

Richard, Charles Urbain AC2 R89726. From Arichat, Nova Scotia. Died Apr. 18/41. Recruiting Centre, Hamilton, Ontario. AC2 Richard was on leave without pay when he died of natural causes while in the General Hospital at Niagaar Falls, Ontario. AirCraftman Second Class Richard is buried at Arichat, Nova Scotia.

Problem is, there is no record of AC2 C.U. Richard. Not in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website, or the Canadian Virtual War Memorial, or Library and Archives Second World War Service Files War Dead section.

Possibly AC2 Richard applied to the RCAF, but died before he was enlisted.

Curious.

All the Best,

Paul
Wetaskiwin

I agree with George, he wouldn’t have been assigned a rank and a Service Number I believe BUT on second thought men went thru recruitment and then were either sent home or on leave without pay waiting for their initial training course to start



Unfortuately I can’t find anything on him. The only record (exactly what you posted) is in CASPIR

IMG_3776.jpeg (253.38 KiB) Viewed 1141 times

[Temujin]

Hi George,

I have found references to unpaid leave for airmen who have enlisted, but not yet been called up to active duty. Also for planting and harvesting crops. But those references are for airmen who are referenced on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Canadian Virtual War Memorial and the Library and Archives Canada database. What is unusual in this case is that he has a serial number, and is the They Shall Go Not Old, but there is no reference to this airman in other sources.

Another possibility is that he did not die, but was for some reason not called to serve. I met one airman sho served in the airforce, later the RCN as a pilot, and lived to retire, but is included in TSGNO in error.

Thus the mystery.

Paul

Found his name in the Book of Remembrance
https://veterans.gc.ca/en/remembrance/m ... /page/3470

[Temujin]

Hi George,

I have found references to unpaid leave for airmen who have enlisted, but not yet been called up to active duty. Also for planting and harvesting crops. But those references are for airmen who are referenced on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Canadian Virtual War Memorial and the Library and Archives Canada database. What is unusual in this case is that he has a serial number, and is the They Shall Go Not Old, but there is no reference to this airman in other sources.

Another possibility is that he did not die, but was for some reason not called to serve. I met one airman sho served in the airforce, later the RCN as a pilot, and lived to retire, but is included in TSGNO in error.

Thus the mystery.

Paul

Found his name in the Book of Remembrance for the Second World War
https://veterans.gc.ca/en/remembrance/m ... /page/3470

IMG_3778.jpeg (771.53 KiB) Viewed 1135 times

Note, on the record above you will note that his rank is listed as A2 this was the French abbreviation Aviateur 2e classe in English is Aircraftsman Class 2

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/en/remembran ... -and-units

Below is from the Books of Remembrance rank chart used in the Book for the Second World War

IMG_3779.jpeg (448.2 KiB) Viewed 1111 times

IMG_3780.jpeg (485.48 KiB) Viewed 1105 times

IMG_3781.jpeg (336.78 KiB) Viewed 1105 times

[Paul Squires]

Hi Temujin,

Thanks as always.

Honoured in the Book of Remembrance is interesting and signifcant. I wonder what the reason for his omission elsewhere is?

Others are honoured who served briefly. AC2 Thomas Foster Gordon R57573, killed February 11, 1940 in a car accident that injured 2 other airmen and the driver, just two days after enlistment in the RCAF, for example. (It is possible that AC2 Gordon might be the first R----- serialed airman to be killed in the War, but this is something that needs proof).

Finding AC2 Richard in the CASPIR database is a given. They used my work. Which is what it is for. All I asked was credit for the Ventura Memorial Flight Association and the Bomber Command Museum that hosted it, with a link to the sites opening page. And those specifically to the groups, not my name. The idea was to increase traffic at both sites, attract researchers, and give credit to work done.

Instead they took the data, developed the CASPIR site, with a link directly to the years files at Nanton without any credit or acknowledgement, and cut the older file I gave them when they started into monthly chunks, on their site, that didn't credit either of the groups. Result, anyone using the Chronology files via the CASPIR link would have no idea it was created or hosted by anyone else than them.

(I should add that the contact which brought the initial request started well with a question by one of the top people in what became CASPIR regarding his father, taken PoW in North Africa, and working together we found him incorrectly listed as RAF, and under two different mispelled names, by Chris Shores and the rafcommands site. Glad we cleared that up, and credit is given in the Chronology.)

I discovered the CASPIR site had been created by chance, when recovering from COVID, and was a bit miffed. I asked that they link to the title page for the Chronology instead of directly to the files without credit, and I would provide a guide to searching the database, which would have met the credit matter and given them access to updates without any other work on their part. Instead both links were deleted and all you can find (if you look) is a one line mention of me on their 'References' page, which I think completely goes against the co-operation we all depend on in reasearch like this. As so much of the CASPIR data comes from the Chronology I can fully understand they can't re-write it, and I'm ok with that, but I don't give them any corrections or updates. Those are reserved for the files at the Bomber Command Museum.

I have always been super careful of crediting the work of others, so you might say I am sensitive in this matter. I can say CASPIR is good, and certainly has the spotlight, but it does, like many other sites, copy/paste a lot and should be used with caution. It is my last 'go to' when seeking a common site like 'Find A Grave', but I find I'm using it less now that I am able to access the Library and Archives Canada files directly. In fact, I am going through all the data I have found in the TSGNO Errata project to update to this level, which is how I got interested in the question of AC2 Richard again.

Anyway, that's beside the point. We have a mystery, an Airman who has not been recorded in full. I think I will pass it on to my contact at the Canadian Virtual War Memorial, perhaps they can research this matter; it's over my level, and if it stumped temujin, it needs investigating!

And if anyone else finds an answer, please contact me. Given the AI and problems with using my e-mail, which is for the Canadian Aeronautical Preservation Association, best send a letter to me (I know, archaic, but it works and is more secure) at Paul Squires, c/o AV8 Solutions, 300 5505-50th Avenue, Wetaskiwin, Alberta, T9A 0T4.

I give this contact (first time) because I really want to see AC2 Richard honoured for his service, and his name appears to have been doubly forgotten, except in the Book of Remembrance. And this is very intriguing.

All the Best,

Paul
Wetaskiwin